tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3178366214524455884.post2142734194755804998..comments2024-03-26T08:06:19.661-04:00Comments on The Road Less Travelled: Barren B*tches Book Brigade: "The Handmaid's Tale"loribethhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09272814565916935113noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3178366214524455884.post-39875887531647033962007-12-14T06:43:00.000-05:002007-12-14T06:43:00.000-05:00"I'm a wife, a bereaved mother, a daughter, sister..."I'm a wife, a bereaved mother, a daughter, sister, niece & cousin, friend, facilitator, writer, employee/co-worker... You can talk to me about my job, my volunteer work, the books I've read lately, current events, my hobbies, the latest movies, my last vacation. But at family gatherings & other social events, it seems like all anyone wants to talk about is kids -- and because I have no kids, I am often shut out of the conversation." - I completely agree with this. I find it so hard to understand why people only seem to talk about that subject. <BR/>I have gotten to a point in my life, where the possibility of being child-less is becoming more and more reality, that I find I can't participate in a lot of converstaions anymore. I feel much more excluded from groups I once felt closer to.Lisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14836457802063761425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3178366214524455884.post-23962489156346861322007-12-13T22:03:00.000-05:002007-12-13T22:03:00.000-05:00You have some great thoughts on feminism and infer...You have some great thoughts on feminism and infertility. It's true that the two don't seem to know what to say to each other sometimes, which is strange, because I'm sure most of us Stirrup Queens (or former SQ's) identify with feminist ideals. <BR/><BR/>You made several interesting points about what feminism has meant for you and your choices, as well as society at large.<BR/><BR/>BeaBeahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11877513815828460269noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3178366214524455884.post-71329043223293536802007-12-13T19:56:00.000-05:002007-12-13T19:56:00.000-05:00I love this bit: "I think that, whatever success ...I love this bit: "I think that, whatever success I have had in carving out a childless/free life for myself, post-loss & post-infertility treatment, is because of the sense of other possibilities for my life that feminism gave to me." <BR/><BR/>Feminism gave me a bright light at the end of a dark tunnel very early on in my life. It helped me gain self-esteem, direction and confidence. It helped me decide to hold off trying for children until I really felt ready. And, it has definitely been a kind hand during these years of infertility. <BR/><BR/>I really like your treatment of feminism in this post. So many good points to think about.deannahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05208971949811803163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3178366214524455884.post-45958519541710163312007-12-13T10:43:00.000-05:002007-12-13T10:43:00.000-05:00Thank you so much for such a thoughtful - and thou...Thank you so much for such a thoughtful - and thought provoking - post, Loribeth. <BR/><BR/>The question as to why there is no real feminist discourse around infertility/pregnancy loss has been rattling around in the back of my mind for quite some time. I am an academic with an extensive grounding in feminist theory, yet one of the reasons why I started blogging was precisely because that theory did not offer me any way of beginning to make sense of my own experiences of infertility & miscarriage. There is an extensive feminist discourse on motherhood, but very little has been written on infertility & pregnancy loss from an explicitly feminist perspective (I will definitely be following up your recommendation of the Linda Layne book). <BR/><BR/>I am not sure why feminism has proved to be so reticent on this issue (I have a very long post brewing on why infertility is in fact a vital issue for contemporary feminism). One initial thought does spring to mind, however. IF isn't something that any woman - whether she identifies as a feminist or not - likes to think about until it happens to her. Perhaps the major feminist work on this issue will have to come from someone who has actually been through these experiences themselves, or maybe it is in fact in the process of being done right here & here, in the virtual community.<BR/><BR/>Oh, and if you enjoyed 'The Handmaid's Tale,' do try 'The Blind Assassin' - it's one of my favourite books of all time!Ms Heathenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06404067891155971103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3178366214524455884.post-54885422627671983612007-12-13T07:03:00.000-05:002007-12-13T07:03:00.000-05:00Excellent post. I agree with so much of it, so man...Excellent post. I agree with so much of it, so many thoughts were sparked that I don't know what to say. But your thoughts, and the words of Layne are so poignant. I have felt often that my losses are too wound up in a discourse of pregnancy controlled by anti-choice groups. I am offended that it can hijack the conversation around our pain and our decisions. <BR/><BR/>I am absolutely getting Motherhood Lost from the library. I need a "somewhat academic" perspective as a lot of other sources on loss are just not compelling for me.Beruriahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07171541078529309991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3178366214524455884.post-32502254278970225192007-12-12T21:53:00.000-05:002007-12-12T21:53:00.000-05:00You have covered a lot of ground here! I think Pe...You have covered a lot of ground here! I think Peggy Orenstein in our earlier book group book, "Waiting for Daisy" talked some about how pregnancy loss just isn't acknowledged in the U.S., perhaps, as Paranoid said, because of the concern that treating it as a loss would be fodder for anti-abortionists. It's a shame. She wrote about how the Japanese had more acceptance and understanding of pregnancy loss with their "water children", in between being and not being. It was an interesting take.Samanthahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02799401502134619497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3178366214524455884.post-72416894049538019642007-12-12T21:24:00.000-05:002007-12-12T21:24:00.000-05:00I agree with you about people's choice of having c...I agree with you about people's choice of having children being so personal. I've NEVER asked someone when the last time they had sex was. So it's an odd question for someone to ask if/when you are planning on having children. I'm sure in my pre-infertile naive days it was a question I asked, but now I NEVER would. Because my greatest fear is asking someone who is silently dealing with their IF. And, it's really none of my business.<BR/><BR/>Great answers.Cabahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08164597797727112635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3178366214524455884.post-73256423082006322922007-12-12T15:50:00.000-05:002007-12-12T15:50:00.000-05:00Great post. So much rich material here to comment ...Great post. So much rich material here to comment on. First and foremost, thanks for your thoughts on feminism. I often wonder why people (women especially) recoil from the term. The extreme feminists tend to be vilified and scrutinized far more than what's really central to the movement -- ensuring that women are not oppressed. As I wrote on Candy's post, without the feminist movement we wouldn't be as far along in opening up opportunities once denied women. I still marvel to think that my mother (the first woman in her family to go to university) had to quit her job when her first pregnancy become apparent ... I would rather be a woman, fertile or infertile, today than pre-1980. <BR/><BR/>As for your well-rounded interests that seem to go ignored at social gatherings, I completely hear you. Inevitably the conversations seem to center around kids. <BR/><BR/>(And, finally, we won't be telling the Canadian powers that be about your lapse in Canadian readership.)Pamela T.https://www.blogger.com/profile/11474998003921896431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3178366214524455884.post-50002831096760178382007-12-12T15:20:00.000-05:002007-12-12T15:20:00.000-05:00I thought of that poem too--and the line about Isl...I thought of that poem too--and the line about Islamic fundamentalists shouldering the blame gave me chills too. It's nice to connect through a book.Lollipop Goldsteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01020874415819057995noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3178366214524455884.post-68933965943671286832007-12-12T12:04:00.000-05:002007-12-12T12:04:00.000-05:00Hi, Loribeth.I especially liked your answers to th...Hi, Loribeth.<BR/><BR/>I especially liked your answers to the 5th question. Very thoughtful and enlightening.<BR/><BR/>IF made me think of that old jump rope game in grade school, where you go through the grades 1-2 (in the US). Then you through the 4 years of college. The next jump is marriage and the final jump is babies.<BR/><BR/>There is a beaten path. People don't know how to talk with you if you're not on it.<BR/><BR/>Hope you are finding many kind travelers on your road.Lori Lavender Luzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15394441222262940632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3178366214524455884.post-82063907860241133802007-12-12T09:30:00.000-05:002007-12-12T09:30:00.000-05:00This was a really thoughtful post. I think you're...This was a really thoughtful post. I think you're right about feminism being uncomfortable with pregnancy loss. I've always chalked that up to the natural tension between acknowledging the (potential, at least) personhood of a miscarried embryo or fetus and a firm belief in the right to choose abortion. I'll admit to being hypocritical on this point -- I always refer to the 6 and 8 week embryos I've lost as "babies," even though in my heart I don't believe that they were yet separate people with separate rights. <BR/><BR/>I wonder, too, if the avidity of the anti-choice movement has kept feminism as a movement from acknowledging pregnancy loss in a meaningful way. One gets the impression that the second feminist s refer publicly to an embyo or fetus as a "baby," anti-choicers will seize on it as evidence that abortion is murder. So we're kind of stuck with the hard (and heartless) line.Paranoidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15941403343831583259noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3178366214524455884.post-68004542278060767492007-12-12T08:52:00.000-05:002007-12-12T08:52:00.000-05:00Fantastic post. I've added "Motherhood Lost" to my...Fantastic post. I've added "Motherhood Lost" to my library account. Thanks for the recommendation; I've been looking for such a book.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3178366214524455884.post-43741541323222106082007-12-12T05:52:00.000-05:002007-12-12T05:52:00.000-05:00I've read a number of Atwood's books and really ha...I've read a number of Atwood's books and really haven't liked them - all except this one, which I love. <BR/><BR/>Interesting answer to the second question!Rebeccahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15114191808501237357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3178366214524455884.post-78961097331980947082007-12-11T20:52:00.000-05:002007-12-11T20:52:00.000-05:00I really enjoyed reading your thoughts - I read th...I really enjoyed reading your thoughts - I read the Handmaid's Tale many years ago, in grade 13, and still remember parts of it quite well. (BTW you should try Canadian author Margaret Laurence someday ;) - I think my favourite was The Diviners).<BR/><BR/>I also read Harold Kushner's book and it was fundamental in helping me define my religious views and thoughts about God.<BR/><BR/>AndieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com